Three Question with Lands Minister Ralph Regenvanu from PiPP TV.

Full credit must be accorded to the minister of lands for starting what is indeed an important process. No one questions the good intentions of the legislation. For far too long landowners have had their powers undermined by the formal institutions. The one key change the new laws make is to take away the ability of the minister to act as arbitrator of leases on contested land. This measure rights a historical wrong that has been a chronic source of corruption and unfair dealing since independence.

In order to secure the agreement of backbenchers uneasy about the new legislation, further consultation was promised before the new laws were to be gazetted, recognising concerns about the new Customary Land Tribunal Act in particular. The process was begun in February, when the government held a series of meetings with landowner groups in Efate. But then on February 20, in the midst of turmoil surrounding a threatened no confidence vote, the new laws were brought into effect.

The lack of further consultation will probably lead to more uncertainty about customary land ownership, not less, and could indeed become the source of further land disputes. These, ironically, are the very problems the new laws are meant to address.

Failure to consult is also failure to confront the question at the heart of all the arguments for and against the new land laws: How can kastom be respected and recognised within a national legal framework for managing land claims and use?

This central question has remained unanswered since the time of Independence, when the Constitution enshrined the rules of kastom as the basis for all land dealings in Vanuatu and returned all land in Vanuatu to the customary owners. This recognition of kastom goes further than in any other country in the world – it establishes the unique character of Vanuatu as a nation. But instead of the organic national land law based in kastom envisaged by the nation’s founders, Vanuatu land laws are a primarily an adaptation of ideas and legal frameworks developed elsewhere – and for people elsewhere who see land as belonging to them rather than thinking that people belong to land. They were, in short, designed by people who regard land as property rather than seeing themselves as inseparable from their place.

For ni-Vanuatu, people are part of their place; the two are inseparable. Kastom consists of the ideas and practices that support this unity. Respect for kastom means ensuring these ideas and practices are included in land laws.

The new Customary Land Management Act, which has drawn the most criticism, is touted as a law that supports kastom. But looking at it more closely there are a number of provisions in it which are inconsistent with that assertion.

The Act begins (section 1) with recognition of customary institutions’ authority to determine the rules of custom. But then it goes on to define these institutions as nakamals and ‘custom area land tribunals’, and specifies their role as being able to make legally enforceable decisions regarding land within a state institutional hierarchy for managing land. These provisions undermine the authority of nakamals, putting them at the bottom level of a hierarchy of institutions, and making the state the arbiter of what is a customary institution and what is not. They are not consistent with custom. There should be recognition that customary bodies are defined by people themselves and that these bodies operate in partnership with the state; they are not subordinate to it.

The definition of a nakamal (section 2) is ‘a customary institution that operates as the seat of governance for a particular area. Members of a nakamal include all men, women and children who come under the governance jurisdiction of that nakamal.’ Questions have even been asked as to whether it is possible to define a nakamal in the way the new law has done, given the fluid nature of kastom. Indeed, many have questioned whether it is even possible to codify kastom. Importantly, the definition of a nakamal does not distinguish between custom owners and other people who simply live in an area. This lack of differentiation is not consistent with kastom.

While affirming up front the authority of nakamals to determine the rules of custom, the Act infringes on this authority in relation to customary process and decision making. For example, section 17 requires that a properly constituted meeting of a nakamal requires two thirds attendance of the adult members, and that a decision regarding land ownership needs to be taken by consensus of all members of a nakamal. Section 21 provides that if a nakamal does not make a decision in 30 days that mediation can be called for. These requirements are not customary. They do not for example, require that the customary land owners concerned be present, and the time limit fails to recognise that good decisions can take a lot of time.

The Act also allows people who are not happy with process inside a nakamal to complain about it. Section 22 makes it an offence to fabricate evidence or to obstruct a process. But how is fabrication to be determined, for example, if oral lineages do not coincide? People with a grievance could allege that proper customary practice is an offence in order to sway a decision in their favour.

In addition to the matters prescribed, there are matters and situations that the Act does not address and which could cause problems. For example, it does not provide protections against false customary institutions. It does not address situations where chiefly authority is complicated, contested or being decided. It does not provide any way of determining or limiting who is under the control of a nakamal.

In fairness, Mr Regenvanu accepts that further work is needed to address issues such as these. In the interview above, he addresses many of these concerns directly.

The Customary Land Management Act attempts to restore kastom to its proper place at the heart of all land dealings. But it does not succeed because the people who put it together have not recognised that respect for kastom is as much about how people work through land claims as it is about the specific kinship and other rules they apply, or that kastom is different in different places. And they have not recognised that kastom cannot be subordinated to the law. No one will accept that.

We call for the nation’s leaders to show respect for kastom – do not implement the new laws until people have had the time to talk about them, to work through the proposed changes following their own customary processes. To an extent people need to be left to do this themselves, but there is also a place for government leaders to join their conversations. When leaders do this, they should listen to what people have to say and not impose deadlines or dominate meetings. Take the time to talk, show respect for kastom. And then modify the laws to address the problems that people will surely raise.

PiPPtalks- Moana Carcasses Kalosil, Prime Minister, Republic of Vanuatu

One of my main targets is for West Papua to become a full member of the MSG.

Since January, when this government formed we’ve sent Port Vila-based West Papua representatives to visit leaders in all MSG countries so they could state their case.

I have asked them to go and inform leaders on what the real situation is on the ground in West Papua and ask those leaders to be responsible.

“You have the support of Vanuatu”

Actually the government of Vanuatu is funding their trips because we recognise that is a responsibility that we can’t leave ignore.

At the recent South-South G77 meeting, I was glad to be able to raise the issue with my MSG counterparts.

I spoke with Fiji Prime Minister Bainimarama, then I discussed it with Solomon Islands Prime Minister Gordon Darcy Lilo and I also spent a little bit of time with PNG prime minister.

We did not have time to discuss it in detail because of the busy schedule but both Solomon Islands and Fiji have pledged their full support.

I can understand the concerns of the prime minister of PNG. There are border issues and economic issues. So we are trying to find a way, where once the motion is moved, it is passed.

I understand out of the five members of MSG, at least four are for this issue.

I am part of a West Papua forum and I receive information that comes from it.

There are things happening there that I totally disagree with where they are killing people. They put knives into their stomachs, remove their intestines.

That’s barbaric. That’s bad.

I won’t sleep at night if I know these things are happening  and I’m not doing anything about it.

It is my duty and I am sure it is the duty of every leader of the MSG to ensure we find a solution.

Maybe through the MSG, we could talk to Indonesia. I don’t know but [West Papua] must be part of the MSG.

What are the advantages of being part of the Melanesian Spearhead Group (MSG)?

The MSG is quite a powerful tool if we use it well. For example, I advanced the idea that maybe the MSG could have its own police force where in the event of trouble in the Pacific or even during a cyclone or an environmental disaster we could dispatch them straight away to help.

These ideas can be part of the agreements that we have come up with.

Another example is where we have foreign missions overseas which cost a lot of money to run, how can we work together so that we could have MSG representatives representing our interests?

In terms of trade, Vanuatu is the last on the wagon on the train. We don’t really benefit. So we have raised concerns and are working to find solutions. So that as a small player in the MSG Vanuatu can have some benefits.

Our trade officials are working on that and we will have some decisions soon but as far as the MSG is concerned it is a powerful organisation which can help the Pacific to address many issues…good issues

You pledged support for the Fiji prime minister’s leadership. What are your thoughts on this?

I have said before, it is not for me to decide on the destiny of Fiji. The people of Fiji should decide their own destiny.

Vanuatu is only here to help.

But if you see what was happening before Bainimarama came in, there was a lot of corruption there were different classes of people… there were lots of people without access to important services these are facts expressed by the people of Fiji, not just me.

I am for democracy, I was elected democratically and I fully respect the democratic process.

Today the results are showing that Fiji will have a new constitution. Whether you like it or not that is not for me to decide, but they have decided that they will have only 45 MPs. So they save money. They have a population of more than 800, 000 and they will have only 45 MPs. We have 260,000 people and we have 52 MPs.

Corruption issues have been dealt with.

PM Bainimarama also told me they have come up with a new constitution, a constitution that ensure that there won’t be two or three categories of citizenship, just one. Everyone is equal. (He told me) it follows the same principles in your constitution.

In Vanuatu when you become a naturalised citizen you enjoy the same privilege as everyone, except for land.

In my case, as far as land ownership rights are concerned, I would like to place on record that since the age of 5. I was adopted into a family (in Erakor) and I remember that when… I reached 20 years of age.

I became secretary of our trust every year I receive money from our family trust, because my name is Kalosil. I am recognised as a member of the family in Erakor.

Even though I am not supposed to under the Constitution, this is the beauty of being part of a family.

In the case of Fiji, I told them straight that. I support a strong leader who has a vision and tries to straighten up things that the politicians had failed to do.

That’s all.

Do you support the independence process of Tahiti and New Caledonia?

Actually, Oscar Temaru is my uncle. We have a good relationship. We have discussions all the time. I have told him that you have a lot of challenges to make independence become a reality.

Independence means that you have the support of the majority of the people of Tahiti. And the problem you have … Well, Vanuatu has a minimum wage of VUV 30 thousand you have a wage of VUV 150 thousand you ask them to gain independence but you will no longer receive that kind of money…

Education will no longer be free – you will have to pay just like us. It is the same with health…you have to pay. Then there won’t be anymore financial assistance to businesses.

You have a big challenge to convince the people of Tahiti. So if I can help, there is no problem.

…if you take New Caledonia case, you have the Noumea Accord. There is a political process under way and all political parties agreed …There is a consensus.

I have told him that maybe there is a way forward towards independence.

We have mandated Honourable Joe Natuman to go and meet New Caledonian people and ask them what they expect from Vanuatu and whatever Mr. Joe Natuman comes back with as his recommendation, we will act on it.

Does Vanuatu recognise Georgia or Abkhazia?

Yes, I can confirm that we have passed a council of ministers to recognise that Abkhazia is fully part of Georgia… whom we will deal with. No one else

You are the first naturalised PM of Vanuatu; do you think this is a sign of political maturity?

Firstly I must say that the people who voted us into parliament have given us immense respect and I am now prime minister.

So …to answer your question, yes there is political maturity.

When we planned this government with the parties involved in the negotiation

I told them that I was interested in becoming prime minister but not to form a government for the sake of politics when parties negotiate a government everyone will try to push for their political interests and will want this particular portfolio or that… that kind of thing.

I told them that I was interested in forming a government that works in the interest of the public. If you agree and want me as prime minister, I would like to have the opportunity to make decisions.

The other thing that I told them was that I wanted a government …that also had a vision. Today our vision is based on the PAA (Priority Action Agenda) and I thank the donors and those who share their inputs.

But really there is often limited political will and political vision.

That is why we pushed the idea of the 100-days list. It is the political vision of this government and it is about what should be done.

What is the main idea behind the 100-days plan?

I must make it clear that this 100-days does not include weekends and public holidays.

This means the 100-days will lapse in September. Up-to-date I have made some stock take we have already implemented 35% of the 100-days plan.

Many of the other plans have legislative conditions, so I am calling parliament.

I was planning to call parliament on the 21st of July but because of the time constraints and the fact we have to translate the amendments into French we have decided to call a parliamentary sitting in August.

One of these changes, under the Article 30 (2) of the constitution is to make it mandatory for the government to consult with the National Council of Chiefs on issues relating to land.

Other important change is for example when there is a boycott in the parliament and if the third day after that is Saturday or Sunday we can’t stop any political process. We want to change that in the constitution so that the next sitting could be held on any day but not Saturday and Sunday.

How are you involving citizens more in government process to improve government policies?

The government comes from the people, by the people and for the people.

If you believe this then as a politician you have to make sure that it happens.

That is why we engaged the communities for the first time and organised the Council of Ministers in the provinces.

But not just that…this year we are doing a stock-take in all the provinces to find out the real situations affecting local communities. The issues we often hear about relate mainly to Port Vila.

Many times we receive calls from the islands about people complaining about education lack of health services …and so on…

When you take the council to the people, you begin to understand their needs better. You realise that many government services do not reach them. And these services don’t reach them because we talk about decentralisation in terms of power but money doesn’t always follow people in Port Vila decide how money should be distributed and that’s what is wrong.

That is why this government is undertaking a stock-take of the issues affecting communities. We interact with people, which mean chiefs, church leaders, women leaders and youth to understand their issues and what they expect so that we could address them properly.

If you look at the outcome of the TORBA meeting.

It is great success.

Yes, we spent money. I believe we spent more than VUV 25 million to host the one-week meeting.

Some will argue it was a waste of public funds. No – it was money well spent. We spent it on our airlines, our ships, food and accommodation and the costs were monies given to the local communities…for our people.

Now, we have a fair understanding of the problems people in TORBA face. The Council of Ministers has made important decisions in major infrastructure projects such as roads, airports and issues affecting bungalow owners.

Issues that we will be addressed this year .As far as money is concerned, for example, I have blocked 11 overseas trips by government officials which means we’ve saved about VUV 30 million.

So as a former minister of finance, I understand what prudent fiscal management means.

I know that I must recuperate money to meet these costs this is where I am recuperating money to fund these activities.

I am quite positive about the exercise. Even if you go and speak to the civil servants they will tell you that it was a good thing that they went to TORBA meeting …

As one of the outcomes, I have asked that we publish how much was spent in TORBA. So we are totally transparent. We will also publish the decisions of the Council of Ministers…and before the end of the year the people of TORBA province should be able to see some of the outcomes of meeting being implemented.

Why did the government decide to sack finance minister, Willie Jimmy? 

Nowadays, it is important to have constant dialogue with the leaders and our backbenchers almost on a daily basis

We communicate through email …so there is a different kind of approach of working together.

In my experience, I can say that there is trust when we address issues. Of course, we do not always agree on all issues. That’s normal but we try to find solutions together.

I must admit that I have a lot of respect for Honourable Willie Jimmy Tapangararua. I think he is one of the best finance ministers in the country. He is a proactive person.

The issues are political in nature. We have to protect the government.

Actually we decided to remove him as finance minister because there are allegations that they wanted to form a third group in parliament which was not part of the agreement.

So we decided unanimously to release him from his position.

What is your opinion on the Vanuatu economy today?

Last year we had economic growth of just 2.2 %. This year that growth is expected to be roughly the same or maybe 2.5%. But there are decisions to be made on investments in relation to about VUV 20-30 billion worth of infrastructure projects. When we begin work these major infrastructure projects automatically the economy will grow.

At the same time it will allow the private sector to plan…Under the 100-days plan

…we have raised the issue of joint partnerships that give ni-Vanuatu 51% ownership…on certain businesses…so that they can be part of the economy.

I am quite confident that with these investments on infrastructure the economy will grow.

The government and the private sector should work together. The government sets policies based on the advice offered by the private sector. When the private sector makes money, the government can raise more revenue and in turn provide the services people need.

So that is what we are doing, we are talking frankly.

Actually, I want to say we met on Saturday and we had a heated argument here. Everyone was present including the deputy prime minister and the ministers for health, land and agriculture …we disagreed on many issues but at the end of the day we found compromise and that’s what we need.

I’ve also contacted the leader of the opposition to suggest him that we should meet on a monthly basis for one hour to discuss issues that he may want to raise with us. So that he makes sure that the government I lead is accountable.

I want to do the same with the media. I want to work closely with them but I also want them to be accountable and responsible. So that we develop this country in the best interest of the people.

The Pacific Institute of Public Policy’s first PiPP Talk is with leading West Papuan independence figure Benny Wenda.

Pacific Institute of Public Policy hosted a public forum in Koror, Palau bringing together Senators, civil society and regional thinkers from around Micronesia to discuss a range of issues affecting small island states.

PiPP spoke with a number of students concerning their views, their hopes and the challenges they see their respective nations facing in the future. Here are the results.

Dialogue for Democracy is a documentary focused on civic engagement in Vanuatu. It follows Mary Jack Kaviamu, the Electoral Commission and the PiPP team as it goes around the country staging public awareness on the big issues facing voters in the lead up to the 2012 national election.

Pacific Debate 2012 was on the overarching theme of Geopolitics with the debate motion: ‘that in this Pacific century and a new era of strategic contest-island states should be neutral. FOR: Kaliopate Tavola (Fiji) and Major General (rtd) Jerry Singirok (PNG), AGAINST: Congressman Eni Faleomavaega (American Samoa) and Senator Peter Christian (FSM). The Pacific Debate was held on the sidelines of the ACP-EU meeting in Port Vila, Vanuatu on Wednesday 13 June 2012 at the Watermark Restaurant on Iririki Island.